Kylie: [00:00:00] Welcome back to episode of the Hormone Hub Podcast, where we talk all things perimenopause, menopause, and have the conversations no one else is having. Sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode. 

Kylie: Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Hormone Hub podcast. I’m your host, Kylie Pinwill, and today we have got the beautiful Shirlee Williams with us. Shirlee is going to share her personal journey of how she survived menopause, which actually is a pretty cool story. 

Kylie: So Shirlee is a spiritual mindset coach and she’s committed to help living and helping women who are over 40 live a full and authentic life. Her mission is to provide a sacred space that helps women let go of limiting beliefs, negative self talk and self doubt to rediscover true potential for what life has to offer.

Kylie: I think we can all do with a bit of this right now, regardless of where you’re [00:01:00] at. Shirlee’s been in that spiritual wellness space for over two decades and brings a wealth of knowledge through life experience and deep training. So I was lucky enough to be a guest on Shirlee’s podcast.

Kylie: We decided to turn the tables and today I have Shirlee on our podcast. Shirlee runs Becoming You Real Conversations -for living an unapologetic life. So hello and welcome Shirlee. 

Shirlee: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m enjoying our conversations. I like our evenings together. 

Kylie: Yeah, your evenings, my mornings.

Kylie: True. But it’s quite fun. So Shirlee, tell us a bit about yourself. So I logged onto your Instagram and you’re upside down doing handstands and I saw that with the dog and I did laugh because the dog is, I thought, okay, well, universal language of [00:02:00] dogs is they’re always going to put themselves, you know, 

Shirlee: no personal space, 

Kylie: none whatsoever.

Kylie: So tell us a bit about you and your background and what you do. 

Shirlee: So my background is It’s primarily yoga, breathwork, and meditation. I’ve been in the wellness space for over two decades, so probably 25 years now teaching yoga and meditation. I had a bricks and mortar studio in my area and then in 2020 closed it.

Shirlee: And I’ve been running international retreats, yoga teacher training, and my, my teachings has always been. woven with some sort of life lesson, you know? And then I got this like name while yoga meets life coaching, because I talk a lot about the time on our mat is like training ground for life. And so [00:03:00] I come with these intentions every week, you know, for example, today’s intention in the class was quiet the noise.

Shirlee: Like there’s so much external noise these days with everything. I mean, you can just get, you know, sucked into the vortex of social media And I really feel like these days, it’s actually not making women feel better. It’s actually making women feel worse about themselves. 

Kylie: Yeah, I agree. 

Shirlee: What social media is portraying is not real life.

Shirlee: And so this, this after this morning’s practice was turned down the noise and I had no music and it was just us in our bodies moving. And I said that this was training ground for the rest of your day. Like how can you tap in? So I come with these really great, great life lessons. And I talk about yoga being the true practices off of our mats.

Shirlee: You know, it’s great that we show up on our mats, but what are we going to do when, you know, shit hits the fan outside in our regular day? 

Kylie: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:00] 

Shirlee: Yeah. And so I sort of, you know, I took on the role of, of life coach and I started group programs and masterclasses and one on one working with women, 40 plus who were going through some sort of transition who had maybe forgotten who they were along the way and really remind women that they are meant to be living an extraordinary life.

Shirlee: And then the conversation is great, but then there’s this embodiment piece of taking it like back to our mat. How can we internalise it? How can we tap back into the breath and do and show up for ourselves? Really? 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s so true. So many of us, and I’ll put my own hand up here of sliding into that we take on the role where, a mum, we’re a partner, we work, we are a daughter, a sister, a friend you know, and because we are so capable, we take on all of these things, but we do forget that there’s actually a passionate, [00:05:00] interesting person who used to be energetic and, that person lives inside of us. 

Shirlee: And then throw in some hormones along the way. And it’s the recipe for like disaster, and I coach a lot of women in the sort of perimenopause and menopause space, because that is a transition and it hasn’t been portrayed as a good one. And I have. my own journey with it. And so now like my focus seems to like be changing a little bit, you know, the women that are showing up for me are kind of exactly where I am.

Shirlee: They’re post menopause or they’re just at that cusp now. And they’re like, what, what is going on? 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. And what’s next? Share a bit about your sort of menopause journey. Because I know, and I speak to a lot of women in the health, who work in the health space. Who think they’ve got it all together.

Kylie: They think they’re just gonna smooth, sail through this. And [00:06:00] that doesn’t always happen either. 

Shirlee: I didn’t sail through anything. But the problem was no one was talking about it. You know? So, my mom passed away many years ago. She was quite young, so I didn’t have her to like check in or have this conversation like, Hey, when did you go through menopause?

Shirlee: What was that like for you? Did you do anything? You know, I didn’t have that option. So I started to turn to like friends that were a little bit older. And even then they were just like, it’s just, you just go through it. Like it’s going to suck a little, you know? And I remember going to my doctor and saying like, I’m not feeling well, you know, like, and he would, well, what’s wrong?

Shirlee: I don’t know. I’m really tired. And, you know my joints are hurting and. My elbow’s been sore the last little while and my low back is sore and you know, and then it would be like, well, maybe you’re doing too much yoga or you know, what else are you doing? Like, you should slow down a little bit. And I was like, I don’t even know if that’s really, that’s [00:07:00] really the answer, you know, like just slow down a little bit.

Shirlee: I mean, I was, I was still in my forties, like mid forties, you know, 

Kylie: Most women in their mid forties need to move a bit more. 

Shirlee: Right, right. And so I had been that woman who was completely regular 28 day cycle, really easy period, a couple of two, you know, a couple of days of heavier bleeding, but like, every month like clockwork.

Shirlee: And so when I turned 50, maybe when I turned 49 all of a sudden, one day my period just didn’t come. Like it just didn’t come. And I was like, I actually, if, if I could be really honest, I actually thought I was pregnant. 

Kylie: It happens. 

Shirlee: I was in a new relationship. 

Kylie: Yeah. 

Shirlee: I wasn’t on anything. We had had [00:08:00] sex and then my period just never came.

Shirlee: And I went to my doctor, I did a pregnancy test at home and it came back negative. And I went to my doctor and I said, I think I’m pregnant. And he said, why? And I said, I missed my period. And he sort of had a good laugh with me. And he’s like, you’re not pregnant. I’m like, but how do you know that? Like it does happen.

Shirlee: And so he took some blood work. It showed that I wasn’t pregnant. And he said, You’re probably in menopause, like it’s now, now we go 12 months, right? Cause there’s like really menopause is like one, one day, right? It’s like the next day. Right. So he said, you’ll see, it probably will be like irregular right now.

Shirlee: And I said, you know, I’m really not feeling well. And he ran a panel of tests and I kept saying, you know, my, my family has rheumatoid arthritis in my family. Like maybe we should check some markers for autoimmune stuff. And so he, he ran some tests and I had some weird numbers come up and he said, like, let’s just [00:09:00] monitor it.

Shirlee: I don’t think you’re really sick. And of course Google knows everything. And so you start Googling like what these blood work numbers are. And it talks about blood cancers and leukemia. And I, and he’s like, you had, bone cancer or blood cancer, like you would be really sick kind of thing. And so we monitored the blood for a little bit and my period just never came back.

Shirlee: Like it literally, everyone was like, Oh, you’ll see in a couple of months, you’ll start bleeding again. Like everyone had this thing that was sure was going to happen for me. And I never got another period, but I actually got sicker. Like I, my hot flashes were out of control. I was having insomnia. I was having depression.

Shirlee: I had low libido. My joints were sore, night sweats, like anything you could have imagined, dry vagina. And then I got diagnosed, I went to the doctor and I said, I am, I’m quite itchy down there, like dry and itchy. It’s just [00:10:00] menopause. You know, you’ll, we’ll, you’ll get through it. And then I gained a little bit of weight and, and then the, I kept being dismissed from my doctor.

Shirlee: So I started to work with my naturopath and we started to do more blood work and more testing and, worked on some cortisol levels and my adrenals and, I was still having lots of hot flashes. I was pretty uncomfortable and I kept talking to her about this itchy vagina thing. I was like, it’s like out of control and the doctor said he thought I had maybe a yeast infection and so she’s like, I don’t think it’s a yeast infection.

Shirlee: She didn’t even look at it. She said to me, it sounds like lichen sclerosis. 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. 

Shirlee: So listeners don’t know what that is. They can look it up, but it’s categorised as an autoimmune disease and the troublesome part about that is if it gets out of control, those cells can actually turn into cancer cells.

Shirlee: And so now I’ve been referred to a gynecologist who’s now monitoring it and she’s done a [00:11:00] little biopsy and now she’s checking it and I keep telling her it’s out of control. Like, you can’t even look at my vagina. 

Kylie: Yeah. 

Shirlee: And so she says to me, have you thought about hormone replacement therapy?

Shirlee: And I said, Oh no, I, I’m a yoga teacher.

Shirlee: You can’t cross that line. I’m going to do this naturally. I’m like yam cream on the soles of my feet every night, a little bit of vitamin C cream that has been compounded onto my vagina. I’m gonna go through this naturally. I’m going, I’m gonna fight it, you know. And so, she kind of left it and then I went back again and she said, How are you feeling?

Shirlee: And I said, I’m feeling pretty terrible. And you have to understand we’re like five years in, like it, I just went from like no period to post menopause to five years of suffering. Like, night sweats, towels on the bed, remember I’m in a new relationship, God bless him. [00:12:00] 

Kylie: Yeah, wow. 

Shirlee: And I keep saying to her, no, I’m good, I’m a yoga teacher, like I don’t know why, you know.

Kylie: Yoga fixes everything. 

Shirlee: And I would talk to my friends and they would like Oh, have you tried this natural herb? Have you tried this natural remedy? Have you tried a noni steam? I’m like, Oh yes. The noni steam is going to be the thing that’s going to fix my vagina. There’s been so much vagina talk at this point.

Shirlee: And so finally, I go to the doctor and she says, how’s it going? And I break out bawling myself. You don’t have to keep suffering. 

Kylie: Yeah.

Shirlee: And I said, well, what about the women’s initiative? They did it. I’m going to get cancer. I’m going to get breast cancer. Like. Oh, and by the way, in between all of this, I actually removed my breast implants during this whole five years.

Shirlee: I’m like, I’m going to remove my breast implants. They were quite old and [00:13:00] needed to come out anyways, but everything, I was just like, let’s get rid of everything that could possibly be bothering me. And she said, let’s just do a trial. Let’s do some estrogel and some progesterone. And if it’s going to work, you’ll know within like four weeks, like it’s going to be that clear. And I started it on my 54th birthday and so we’re about six months in now.

Shirlee: And I remember that morning wishing myself a happy birthday and also apologising to my body. I felt like on some level I was letting myself down. I was like, I really wanted to do this naturally. I really wanted to like be able to do that for myself. And I realised in that moment this. It didn’t have to be this hard and I’m, I’m really quite stubborn.

Shirlee: Yeah. And so I put my mind to that. 

Kylie: Hormone Hub episode is sponsored by our [00:14:00] free hormone help call book in your call today with one of our experienced advisors, and we’ll give you some clarity around what’s causing your symptoms and some simple steps you can use straight away to improve your menopause experience. If you’re ready to take the next step book in a call and find out more about how we can help you have a smoother transition through perimenopause and menopause, let us help you balance out your hormones, reset your metabolism, and get your confidence back so you can live the life you’re meant to.

Kylie: The link with all the details is in our show notes or over at kyliepinwill.com/hormonehelpcall

Shirlee: And so I started this hormone replacement and I knew I needed to change the dialogue around it. And so I started to thank it every day. Every morning when I put it on, I was like thank you for this opportunity to heal my body and get it out of survival.

Shirlee: And every night when I took my progesterone, I was like, now I’m going to have a [00:15:00] nice easy sleep and I’m gonna feel better in the morning. I really started to use affirmations and thank my body and thank the estrogen for helping my body. I would have all these conversations with it and about, I would say pretty close to a month.

Shirlee: I slept through the night and I didn’t get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom because that was the other thing that was a big issue for me. And I was slowly awake in the afternoons and my joints stopped hurting. And one day I realised I was wearing a long sleeve shirt. I hadn’t worn a long sleeve shirt in five years.

Shirlee: All of these things, I was like, oh my god, today’s the day I didn’t have any hot flashes. 

Shirlee: I slept through the night and very slowly my body started to come out of survival, because that’s the other thing. My body had been in survival. It was holding on to everything, including me. 

Kylie: And that just perpetuates that whole stress.

Shirlee: Oh, it was so bad. [00:16:00] And I had some friends who said, Oh, you caved, you started hormone replacement, and I was like, you have no idea. I actually didn’t cave, I’m actually supporting my body. And then a little while ago I went back to the doctor and she said, how are you doing? And I said, honestly, I’m, I’m feeling like 85 percent better.

Shirlee: Almost like myself again, but this lechin sclerosis is really bad and and she looked she said it’s not as bad as you describe I think there might be a missing piece for you and she gave me another hormone called DHEA which is the precursor to testosterone. 

Kylie: Yeah, 

Shirlee: and is it your pituitary gland that actually produces DHEA, did I get that right? It’s a suppository and so she said it’s a little messy at night, but I think that this is really going to help you and within two weeks. All of my itchiness all of the dryness , we had sex that didn’t hurt and i’m just starting [00:17:00] to come out again on the other side. So now I’m like, I’ve gone from like 85 to like 95, you know, but the libido is still a little low. And I feel like part of it is like my body still thinks that it’s going to hurt. And so, 

Shirlee: you know, I feel like conversations are so important with my partner. I shut down, it’s vulnerable. It’s scary. He doesn’t know what to do.

Shirlee: One day he could touch my bum as he walks by the next day. I’m like, don’t touch my bum. You know, like. So it’s like having these open conversations and being open to like, really share that kind of vulnerable piece about it, you know? And I realised the other day, it is just a tool that I’m using to get me through a specific part of my life.

Shirlee: It’s not, it’s not the cure. It’s not like, People are like, well, what’s the longterm? Like, you’re going to stay on this now until you’re like 80. And I’m like, I don’t think [00:18:00] that’s my plan, but I’m in it now. I’ve made a commitment for five years. Yeah. I think five years is a good enough time to then start to test what that feels like on the other side, I do recognise we don’t have to suffer like no one’s talking. I haven’t let my body down. My body is actually in recovery mode now and it feels good and I’m moving better and I’m sleeping better. We’re happy. It changed everything for me. It almost to the point where I was like, God, I can’t believe I did this for five years.

Kylie: I think, the conversation is changing definitely around HRT and the fact that it doesn’t have to be either or, you know, I’m a big believer that, we still don’t need those foundations. We still need to take care of the way we nourish our body, the way we move our body, the way we speak to ourselves and, working on getting those cortisol levels, and not being in survival [00:19:00] mode, and I think that’s a really key piece. But if we look at HRT is that tool to kind of get us over that hump, just to sort of take the edge off, cause we shouldn’t in this day and age, we shouldn’t be suffering, you know?

Shirlee: And I don’t think there’s enough educated doctors out there cause I was really dismissed. Like, I spent a lot of time trying to convince, like, my family doctor. The only reason I ended up with a gynecologist was because of the legend. Like, I didn’t end up at her for HRT. It just so happened. And she actually was quite knowledgeable.

Shirlee: And that’s sort of where the relationship with her went. But I wouldn’t have been referred to her if I didn’t have that. 

Kylie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think if you’re not happy with your healthcare provider, keep looking, because there are some good ones out there.

Kylie: Just don’t put up with being dismissed and don’t put up with being washed out the door. And I, like a totally separate note, [00:20:00] but I went to a ovarian cancer fundraiser last week and this woman got up and she was talking about her daughter. So her daughter is in, like, year five of fighting ovarian cancer.

Kylie: And she was 17 at the time and had quite severe abdominal pain. And she kept saying to her mum, I can feel this lump. And her mum’s like, right, let’s go. And their GP that they’d had forever just dismissed it and just sort of said, Oh, you know, it’s just period pains, probably a cyst, you’ll be fine.

Kylie: And she said that she walked out and she said she knew in her gut and she said she looked at her daughter and knew that the daughter wasn’t taking that either. And they went, let’s go somewhere else. The next GP said, yep, let’s put you in for a scan. She had an MRI, and there it was like a whopping great ovarian tumor. 

Kylie: So, like that story, I hear stories not to that extreme, but I hear stories [00:21:00] all the time about, women finally hit on the right doctor. And then, who’s listening to them, who’s, educated and knowledgeable on, on the latest information. And unfortunately, it just makes me so mad that, it’s potentially 50 percent of their clients. are women, right? So why is our healthcare so, why are we dismissed? You know, like a 50 year old guy goes in and says, Oh, you know, I’m feeling really tired and I can’t get an erection. Oh yes, we have a tablet for that. Of course they do. 

Shirlee: Yeah. I’m reading a book right now called menopause and I’m loving it because she actually has chapters in there that talk about preparing to talk to your doctor.

Kylie: Yes. Yeah. 

Shirlee: There’s a whole bunch of questions to ask your doctor. 

Kylie: Yeah. 

Shirlee: And then there’s a whole chapter of resources of who [00:22:00] you can go to if you’re not getting the answers you need from your doctor. 

Kylie: Yeah. Fantastic. 

Shirlee: It’s changing, right? Like the comfort, more of these conversations need to happen. Like, you know, and I just I’m noticing the trend of it.

Shirlee: Yeah. I’m so. I mean, I talk about it all the time. If, if there isn’t a day that I use the word vagina, I talk about the lichen sclerosis. I mean, I posted something about lichen on my Instagram a little while ago and I woke up to over like a hundred DMs in the back end of going, Oh my God, I have that too.

Shirlee: Like I didn’t think anyone else I knew had it. Like, what are you doing? How are you know, like, and then she shared a link with me that there was like a whole association about it. It’s like we have to keep having these conversations. We can’t normalise them if we’re not going to, if we’re not willing to have them.

Kylie: Yeah, that’s right. And I had a lady just last week in my Facebook community and yeah, she was describing the itchiness. [00:23:00] And I can’t diagnose her and, you know, full stop, but I can’t, definitely can’t diagnose her over a Facebook post. But I said to her, I said to her, and I said, well, why don’t you go and ask your doctor to test you for or swab you for lichen sclerosis?

Kylie: And, you know, and I think when we can give women the words to ask for, because if you don’t know, you don’t know. So it was just like, I didn’t want to say, don’t go, I know you will, but don’t go down the Google rabbit hole. But I said, ask to be tested for this so you can get it ruled out.

Shirlee: But I think, you know, they were testing me for yeast infection for like four months and I kept saying it’s not. 

Kylie: Exactly. Well, she’d been, she’d been taking. Yeah, well, she’d been taking Canesten forever for thrush, and I’m like, well, it’s not responding. It’s probably not. You need to know if it’s bacterial, fungal, and ask, can I be tested [00:24:00] for lichen sclerosis?

Kylie: But I think that’s the thing. If we don’t have the language, we don’t have the words, it’s hard to know what to ask for. I give women like the brand names here in Australia of HRT, make sure you ask for a bio identical version of oestrogen. So you need to ask for da da da da, you know, 

Shirlee: I have people messaging me going, can you send me a picture of your bottle?

Shirlee: What does that look like? You know but I, and I. I want to have more of these conversations. I’ve been reading tons. I have a couple of clients now that I’m coaching that are going through. And again, I’m not a doctor. I’m not a dietitian. Like when I sit, I eat well, people ask me like, well, what are you doing?

Shirlee: If I do what you do, are you, you know, like how many days a week do you work out? What’s your workouts? Do you look, you know, like, again, the lifestyle that is going to work for you is the one that you’re going to show up for. So I can tell you what. All of my things are, and all the things that I do, [00:25:00] at the end of the day, if you’re not going to show up for them, it doesn’t make sense.

Kylie: Yeah, yeah, and we’re all different, you know, and we all need to take on different things. 

Shirlee: Yeah. 

Kylie: So how did, we sort of touched a bit on this yesterday, like being in a new relationship, so you were married for 20 odd years. 

Shirlee: 20 years, married 20 years together, 25. 

Kylie: Yeah, and then, you were in a new relationship, right at the fun time, right?

Shirlee: Oh, he won the lottery. 

Kylie: So how did you take him along for the ride? 

Shirlee: Well, I mean, the first six months were pretty amazing. Other than the hot flashes, I was still pretty good. You know, I, I was good. I had hot flashes. I had some night sweats. The first six months was really great. We talk about it now.

Shirlee: We kind of laugh about it. Like how did this become my life? He says, you know but he, I actually posted the most hysterical [00:26:00] video on TikTok the other day because he was. imitating what goes on at night in our house. And he’s like, she takes the pill. And then sometimes she puts tape on her forehead because she thinks that that’s going to help with her wrinkles.

Shirlee: And then she puts a suppository in her vagina. And then she puts on these really ugly granny panties in case like it leaks. And like, he was like talking to another couple about it. And he’s like, and then she comes to bed with her legs crossed. So nothing falls out. He’s like, I’m feeling sexy. And then, if she’s distressed, she puts on a mouth guard before she goes to bed, you know?

Shirlee: So we’re having this good laugh. I mean, we use humor a lot. You know? Which I think we have to. But, we go from like this, like blissful new relationship, sex every day, maybe sometimes twice a day, you know, he’s thinking he won the lottery. I’m like, Oh my God, this is great to be in love again.

Shirlee: You know, this is amazing. And then it starts [00:27:00] hurting. And so at first I don’t want to say anything. I don’t like, what do I say? Like, this is new, you know? And so then I started to pull away a little bit. And it was actually Andrew who, who initiated the conversation. He says like, like, I know that this is a you thing.

Shirlee: You know, after we went through that, it’s not a him thing, right? 

Kylie: Yeah. 

Shirlee: I know that this is now a you thing. Like I believe you when you say that, but I’m also going through something. So I’m trying to like find language around it. And so there was, I mean, to be completely honest, there was a lot of fumbling, but I also really believe that you can’t change what you’re not willing to talk about.

Kylie: Yeah. 

Shirlee: And it’s still not perfect, because as the lichen got worse. And it would be like, okay, let’s, we could do other things. Like we could, yes. How, I mean, we could have a makeout session, you know, and then I would always feel like, well, it’s not going to end [00:28:00] with sex. And then it would be like how do we get him to be okay with that. And so because there’s this intimacy too. And I, to be quite honest, I didn’t want to be close. I didn’t want to be touched. 

Shirlee: You know, I could barely wipe myself going to the bathroom without causing like some sort of crazy flare up. And so there was ups and downs around that.

Shirlee: I think we’re getting better at it again. It’s a practice, we’re together now six years and we’ve been in this for a long time. The lichen has been it. I mean, now it’s quieting down, but for the last year, it’s been really horrible. We’ve, you know, tried a lot of other things and massage and, you know, connection and make sure there’s lots of talking and intimacy in other ways.

Shirlee: But is it also right?

Kylie: Just, just as important And I think, you know, like to keep that connection and keep that magic and keep that, that attraction [00:29:00] there. 

Shirlee: And I, I don’t know what he’s experiencing, you know, I only know what it is that I’m experiencing and so I think we continue to struggle a little bit and find language around it and, it’s getting better.

Shirlee: Yeah. And we, you know, we would, we’ll program like tonight is the night that we’re going to really connect, like let’s put oil on each other. Let’s touch each other. Let’s kiss, you know? And, and so, and, and then we’ll do that. And then I’ll be like, Oh yeah, I think I want sex. And then we’ll start.

Shirlee: I’m like, no, no, thank you. No, you know I had a woman on my podcast, a actual sex therapist a little while ago, we had a really beautiful conversation about that. And she said like, It’s almost like play a game called mother may I, you know, may I kiss, may I kiss your ear, may I kiss your shoulder, you know, does this feel like really continue to communicate with each other because it’s hard.

Kylie: It’s hard. Yeah, it’s [00:30:00] beautiful. Yeah. Definitely, just sort of reflecting on my own, I’m not speaking for everyone, but having been in a relationship for 25 years plus, probably that communication that I have with my husband, isn’t there to that extent because we just take it for granted that, you know, I know you like this.

Kylie: So this is what we’ll do sort of thing. Or I know, we like doing this together or whatever it is. So there’s not that communication, which actually they’re probably needs to be more, more conversation and more,

Shirlee: You know, I found an amazing lubricant called pleasure pods. They actually come in a little egg and they’re all natural.

Shirlee: I think they’re papaya based and coconut, coconut oil. And those seem to have been really helpful. Like those are, those are good for me that those seem to be working as far as lubricant goes. But it’s trial and error and some, some are better than others and other weeks are not good at all. And we’re [00:31:00] fumbling again and you know, it’s a piece of me that’s been lost.

Shirlee: So it’s like, how do I find that? How do I get that back? You know, and then 

Kylie: Keeping that kindling going, so then we get through the end of this because this won’t last forever. No. No. No. No. No, you’ll get through this and then you’ll, you’ve still got that connection at the other, the other, 

Shirlee: and it is, it is so worth it.

Shirlee: You know, like for anyone listening, who’s like, oh my God, sex, like none in a week. I haven’t had sex in like five years, you know, have these conversations. I convinced myself that that wasn’t so important. Like the intimacy part wasn’t so important. That’s what I told myself, but real, like deep down, like in my heart, I know that’s not true.

Shirlee: It is important. 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. I think for everyone, whether you’re with a partner or not. Yeah, for sure. For sure. All right. So Shirlee, it’s been amazing having you on the [00:32:00] show. I love these conversations and just talking about the reality of how menopause can impact us, regardless of our, our best intentions, and the fact that it’s okay to put our hand up and, ask for help or look for alternatives to support ourselves and I think, we don’t need to be martyrs through this by any means.

Shirlee: Oh, and, and. We’re not broken. Like there’s nothing with us. Like we have another 30 years on the other side. Yeah. God willing, and so it’s like we get to live it extraordinary. And I feel like many women are not, they’re like, this is as good as it’s going to get. And I hate that phrase.

Shirlee: Okay. It’s fine. It’s as good as it’s going to get. Yeah, don’t settle. Don’t settle. I mean, I’m still figuring things out, you know? 

Kylie: Yeah, and that’s it. I think we’ve still got our, our 30 year old brains. Yeah, exactly. [00:33:00] So that hasn’t changed. It’s yeah, getting our bodies to keep up. 

Shirlee: Right. Find young friends.

Shirlee: They keep you young also. 

Kylie: Yeah, that’s it. 

Shirlee: I have friends that are quite much younger than me and they keep me young. 

Kylie: Yeah, although I have younger friends. They also have younger children. I’m not up for that. 

Shirlee: Right. I know. I, we actually, it’s funny because we have friends that are still having babies, believe it or not.

Shirlee: And so we’re like, you know, my kids are not having babies anytime soon. So I feel like we’re already like grandparents. We’ll watch the baby. Oh, we’ll hold the baby, you know? 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. That’s kind of fun too.

Kylie: All right, Shirlee well, thank you so much. Oh, thank you for having me on the show. Yeah. Thanks everyone for listening. Awesome. We’ll see you in the next episode.​

[00:34:00] ​

Kylie: Thank you for taking the time to listen today. You can head on over to the show notes at kyliepinwill.com/podcast where you’ll find all the links. Now, before we go, it would mean the world to me if you’d head on over to your favorite podcast channel, subscribe and leave a review. Don’t forget to share it with your friends. Then stay tuned for next week’s episode and I can’t wait to see you then