Kylie: [00:00:00] Welcome back to episode of the Hormone Hub Podcast, where we talk all things perimenopause, menopause, and have the conversations no one else is having. Sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode. 

Hello, hello, everyone, and welcome to the Hormone Hub Podcast. I’m your host, Kylie Pinwill, and we have the conversations that we should be having more often on the show. And today is no exception to that. Today we have Tina from the Blue Butterfly Institute. So Tina is a survivor of childhood sexual trauma and domestic violence.

And she spent the last seven years consciously healing the very many layers of the impact of this trauma. And I know this is something, even today, I think it’s a subject that we sweep under the carpet. It’s a subject that we’re not talking about. And I know in the work that I’ve done, [00:01:00] there’s a lot of conversations we have that allude to trauma, that we’re not really having the big conversations, but I just wanted to welcome Tina to the show and today is going to be juicy and I’m looking forward to it.

So Tina, welcome. Very welcome. 

Tina: Kylie, no pressure on that being juicy, eh? 

Kylie: So as always, Tina and I had a great conversation before we hit record and I felt an instant connection with her because we did both go to the same uni Oh, Tina’s still there. I left, I left 30 years ago, but we sort of instantly had those crossover connections, which I always love when we get guests on the show.

So welcome Tina. And do you want to tell us first about the Blue Butterfly Institute and, what you’ve created there?

Tina: Yeah, sure. We’re a not for profit charity. And we started in 2020. It’s probably what I would regard my soul work. I think it’s why I was born and why I had to go through everything I did as a child.

And even as I say that, I’m [00:02:00] questioning that because that sort of means that there, there was something good about the abuse, sexual abuse that I encountered as a child. And yeah, well, getting into a whole minefield already, and I’ve just started introduction. Because there’s a whole team of people who say we should never say that trauma was a blessing.

And it wasn’t a blessing because it was horrific and it was horrible. But it’s enabled me to live a life that I wouldn’t have otherwise lived, to be honest. And that’s not always light and bubbly. It’s been a lot of darkness as well, probably more darkness than light. But anyway, I’ve digressed. We support survivors and victims of sexual trauma, males and females, at any age.

So our youngest client was six, our oldest is in their seventies. We run support groups. We have three running at the moment. There’s one in Wollondilly and MacArthur area in New South Wales. And then we have an online support group for those people that can’t make any of our face to face ones. And so we’ve got [00:03:00] people from Adelaide in that as well as Sydney and greater Sydney.

Kylie: Okay. So we’ve got listeners from all over Australia, New Zealand, the States, the UK as well, Canada and I think that’s the thing. And the fact that you’ve recognised, and yes, I don’t think anyone, no one chooses that pathway, but it was a pathway that, you were laid down, I guess.

Tina: Yeah. And because, partly because of what you were saying earlier that this, when we talk about sexual trauma, either childhood sexual abuse or adult sexual assault, people struggle to talk about that. And if you start talking about it, people shy away from it because it’s awkward and it’s uncomfortable and it’s horrible and also reported statistics are what one in three girls and one in four boys or something along those lines. Most of our clients are unreported, which means chances are if you’re talking to a group of people, you’re talking to a lot of survivors in that group and so people are uncomfortable with it.

But I think it is something that needs to be talked about because it [00:04:00] impacts the individuals, especially with regards to shame, and it impacts the health of our society. 

Kylie: Yeah, 100%. And that’s the thing. And I think we’re not equipped with the words. We don’t know, it’s a bit like death, or, we’re not taught to talk about death, or we’re not taught to what do we say?

And then when, you know, it comes up that someone has been a victim of sexual trauma or abuse, we’re not given the words to use to, to have that conversation. And this is sort of why I thought it was really important that you come on the show and talk to us today. It’s, how do we, how do we have that conversation?

How do we start the conversation? 

Tina: You know, I think it’s more about listening. It’s saying, I believe you. You’re safe with me. I will hold your confidence. Do you feel like sharing any more about that? And more often than not, survivors will say, no, I’m all good. Thanks for listening. Cause that’s all they needed was someone to receive it.

Yeah. To be there. If they do wish to discuss it further, you can ask them [00:05:00] things like, do you want to say more about that? Yeah. Has it impacted you? How are you feeling today? Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything I can do to support? But take yourself out of the capacity that you’ve got, like, unless you’re a trained counsellor, you might not feel comfortable or safe enough to do that.

So is there anyone I can access for you for support? Shall we look into some support groups or therapists that specialise? Would you like me to hold your hand while we do that? 

Kylie: Yeah, yeah. And that’s the thing. I think that’s probably why I’ve not opened up the conversation because I’ve felt that it’s way out of my depth and way out of my scope.

But, you’re right. And I think just acknowledging the fact that it’s real and that it happened and that that person needs support. 

Tina: Yeah, and I think that makes the world of difference like I didn’t share my story with anyone for a really long time. I didn’t even tell my parent or my mum until I was 20, 21.

And even after that, I [00:06:00] didn’t tell anyone else probably until I was in my 30s. And, like you said in my introduction that at seven years I’ve consciously been healing the layers of this and it’s been seven years of really quite intense work for me to the point where I can speak quite openly about the parts of my story that I’m happy to share and I’m not happy to share all of it.

Only because it’s not because there’s shame, but because I need to protect people that are still alive. Yeah. Who might be impacted by, not the perpetrators. I’ve got no desire to protect them, but the people around me and, and them who don’t need to know it or 

Kylie: like it’s, yeah, yeah, and that’s it. And the conversation that I would have with the client would be more about acknowledging the fact that it happened, not probing the details, because again, I think that’s a really personal thing. And yeah, I guess everyone would deal with that differently. 

Tina: Yeah, and it can also re victimise and traumatise someone if they go into the details and it’s not, [00:07:00] in my opinion, it’s not necessary to heal to have to go into those itty bitty details and bring them up again.

Because when we’re healing, we’re looking more at the impact that it’s caused for us. So for me, I tell myself stories about not being good enough, about not being lovable, about not being enough in any way, shape or form in any capacity in my life. So I’ve got this other side of me that then is a high achiever and a bit of a perfectionist and then a people pleaser because I don’t, I need to be safe.

So if I people please, there’s a chance I won’t be harmed. So it’s all of these stories that I’ve been unpacking for seven years to the point where I now have stronger boundaries and I have a tighter circle of people who are close. I don’t feel that I need to bring everybody into my circle anymore as I used to.

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. So what sort of work have you done to get you, because we spoke about it, you’re a high school teacher which, you’ve just, just, 

Tina: just left,

Kylie: just left. Yeah. So what’s your journey been over the [00:08:00] last sort of seven years?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tina: intense and a lot of darkness to start with. There was a lot of darkness through my 20s and 30s when I wasn’t talking about it. But as we start to share, there’s even still sometimes when I’m talking publicly, I can afterwards or during feel a little bit of shame. And I think the main takeaway from that for me is that I still have to do, I don’t advocate everybody doing that.

If you want to share your story, find a safe place to share it, like a support group or a therapist or a close friend or a partner. Being conscious that people only have a certain amount of capacity to be able to listen to that. But I think for me, it was, it was letting go of the shame and. Brene Brown says that the best antidote for shame is empathy.

And so when you share your story, there are going to be people who empathize and who can reach out and hold that space for you. And so I started by blogging, and I started by shooting videos. I run workshops for women. [00:09:00] And I’m also a counsellor, so I see individual clients as well, run workshops. All of that stuff that I was doing for others to empower others also enabled me to empower myself to become stronger and to develop that circle of predominantly women who have been able to hold space for it.

The journey itself, like, Most recently this in 2023, I had a very intense therapy session on the 18th of December with a therapist that I met earlier last year, and we use EMDR. So I had been feeling unsafe towards October and November, and I think it was predominantly because I was so busy and exhausted and wasn’t able to hold the space for myself.

So I booked in with her and we knocked out some of my old stories. And. What three weeks on from that I can see the impact or two weeks and I can see the impact already in my life where I’ve been quite [00:10:00] sick the last couple of weeks because I worked myself into exhaustion. 

Kylie: And which is a whole other topic that which is a whole other topic.

We will get to that. 

Tina: Yeah. And mentally, I would usually or psychologically, I’d usually fall in a heap as well. And my old stories would come back and no one loves me and I’m alone and I’m not, and they didn’t happen. And I was lying there quite happy through my illness going, oh, this was gonna happen. And I knew that I should have listened to the science.

Didn’t have time to, that’s what I kept telling myself. So I was able to actually, I. Stay calm and balanced through it and accept that my body was just needing a rest and letting it do what it needed to do without adding the psychological trauma that I usually would add in, like the self blame and recriminations of, you knew this was coming, you’re an idiot, you should have done different.

No, I couldn’t at the time and I knew that, so I knew I was also going to collapse and I was all right with that. Yeah. Yeah, so the healing has been, has been, welcome to my trauma brain of starting one thing and going 300 other places. It’s been all over the shop. So I’ve [00:11:00] used EMDR most recently with wonderful effects.

Yeah. And I found so far that’s been the most. Therapeutic for me at this point in my healing journey, but I also have used EFT, I’ve used meditation, yoga, especially to release the physical stuff the yoga has been phenomenal for that. I’m looking into some more somatic type healing therapies for this year to be able to release more of the physical because I’m still holding a lot of those stories inside.

I can feel them. I want to release them. So it’s been all over the place. I’ve had different counsellors, some effective, some not. I don’t always put myself in for therapy. I only use therapy when I can’t hold the space for myself or do my work myself. I’ll say journal sometimes, not often as a writer, not often, which is interesting.

But I use whatever modalities I feel called to at different times. 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. And I think different modalities offer a different piece of the puzzle. So it’s finding that piece that you need at that time. [00:12:00] Absolutely. That you resonate with and I see it with my clients and I know within myself yeah, something might not resonate, but then you circle back to it. 12 months later and it’s, it’s the nugget that was amazing. Yeah, I know. 

Tina: And that is, that’s the way it’s sort of been for me as well. It’s just, you use what comes when it’s needed. 

Hormone Hub Episode is sponsored by our free hormone help call book in your call today with one of our experienced advisors, and we’ll give you some clarity around what’s causing your symptoms and some simple steps you can use straight away to improve your menopause experience. If you’re ready to take the next step book in a call and find out more about how we can help you have a smoother transition through perimenopause and menopause, let us help you balance out your hormones, reset your metabolism, and get your confidence back so you can live the life you’re meant to.

Kylie: The link with all the details is [00:13:00] in our show notes or [email protected] slash hormone help call.

So with the Blue Butterfly Institute, what resources can women and men access inside the Blue Butterfly Institute?

Tina: So when you become one of our clients, you have access to a writing program, Writing to Heal program that Sarah Cannata runs from Melbourne Online, and she gives access to that program to our, we call them Crisolites, victim survivors. We have local trauma informed yoga classes that are run. We have the support groups.

We have individual counseling. We’re getting to a point where there’ll be a wait list for that because we’re looking to access more counselors who will do pro bono sessions because we don’t charge anything. So everything is free, which means that we’re relying on the blood, sweat and volunteers.

In all of our fields to be able to support. So that’s predominantly it at the moment. This year we’re looking to add [00:14:00] in a couple more face to face support groups. We’re also looking to have some crisis counselling come in. So a text thing that if people need to contact, they can contact. But that’s going to be a work.

In progress to get it off the ground and obviously looking to establish some financial, more solid financial backing this year so that we can actually really run some solid programs. 

Kylie: Yeah. I think that’s amazing. And it’s very much needed resource a hundred percent. Going through childhood, sexual trauma, domestic violence any form of sexual trauma, we sort of often think of trauma as a mental, it affects us mentally, and I think that’s the obvious one, but it also then would have a knock on effect.

100 percent to physical wellbeing as well, because everything is connected. So what, what sort of commonly do you see with your clients coming in? 

Tina: Predominantly [00:15:00] weight issues, either too much or too little. So some sort of eating disorder. And usually, and I might be speaking out of school here, but usually if someone is controlling what they eat to the point where they are not eating very much and they’re losing their health that way I find that that’s more often than not to do with needing to control.

Same on the other end, but for different reasons, it’s control, but trying to be safe in that control. So, for me, there was a lot of pressure on me growing up to be a certain size from my dad, who was one of the perpetrators. And as a result of that, I learned that if I gained weight, then I would be safe from him.

And I can generalise that to everywhere, but then the other side of that is the emotional eating. Yeah. And on the other end, the other end of that, you’ve got the refusing nourishment for yourself. It’s [00:16:00] interesting the way it sort of works. 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. And I agree that there’s like so many layers to that.

And if we think of when we’re babies and we cry and our mother feeds us, you know, it’s such a, an ingrained comfort response food. And then I think, the way we feed ourselves is our most basic form of self care. So if we don’t think we’re worthy of that self care.

We’re not going to nourish ourselves well, that’s where I see, with the women I work with, like a lot of binge eating or a lot of had a client describe it as hate eating and she would just eat, until she felt sick and then she would keep eating, and she just.

Tina: Consistently bad choices with your food, which is where I’m at at the moment. Like I’ll go a few days and be really, really good. And then I’ll have consistently poor choices for a few days. And you just go, well, what though? I’m at a point where I’ll accept it to a point now and be kind to myself and understand where it’s coming from.

But a lot of people [00:17:00] will turn that into self hate and self blame and. And then it becomes harder to move yourself back into healthy choices. 

Kylie: Yeah, that whole, I’m not worthy. I don’t, I don’t, yeah, it plays out. Which is hard. Yeah. Yeah. I’m very common, cause I see it showing up in various forms as well.

Tina: Yeah. I also see a lot of auto immune. Stuff like fibromyalgia has become very common and when you speak to women they will acknowledge there’s been sexual trauma in their past that they’ve not disclosed to anyone or worked through. So it’s our body turning on ourselves. Is it turning on ourselves?

Maybe not. You know how we were talking beforehand about the whispers and then the slaps and the rest of it till we take notice? I believe that illness is that, that if we don’t stop and listen to what our body’s telling us, we’re going to end up in dire straits. 

Kylie: Yeah, 100%. 100%. So, just to give a bit of context to that yeah, Tina went down spectacularly just before Christmas in bed for two weeks?

Tina: Two weeks. Today’s my first day of functioning since Christmas Eve. Wow. [00:18:00] 

Kylie: Yeah. And then my sort of little tap from the universe was I broke my toes spectacularly. I have a big fat black sausage hanging off the end of my foot. So that’s put my fitness aspirations on hold for a few months, but it could show up as digestive disorders, so it could show up quite commonly in the form of IBS, so bloating, constipation, diarrhea, swinging between the two, there’s a very strong link between anxiety and IBS, and that IBS is, it’s inflammation in your body.

So that inflammation then goes to other areas, which is, where we see, autoimmune show up. It’s where we see things like fibromyalgia show up, just all those little niggles and pains and that we kind of like, then get used to, and then we carry that around as our load as well. So.

Tina: And adding cortisol into that. So like, I don’t think my body has ever known a time when it’s been 100 percent [00:19:00] regulated because the trauma or the incidents of trauma started very early on in my life. My earliest memory is one. And so I’ve never known what it’s like to not be in a stressful environment.

So I learned fight, flight, all the rest of it very early on. And so cortisol impacts My system a lot as well. And so I hold a lot of weight in my belly. 

Kylie: Yeah. Yep. And that’s it. And cortisol has got that knock on impact that it’s there to help you get up and run from that bear. So so you know.

Tina: Bears that are at our back door every day. 

Kylie: Every day. So that’s it. And, you know, you can’t. It impacts your digestive system immediately because you don’t have time to stop and go to the bathroom because that is there. You can’t sleep well, you can’t get that restorative sleep because you’ve got that awareness of where’s that bear, where’s that danger.

Your body holds on to weight around the middle because, what happens if you run into a famine? While you’re running from the bear, and just that general [00:20:00] anxiety because you don’t know where that bear is. And being on our hormones, it impacts, like, it’s not safe for us to, to fall pregnant.

So that’s where it starts to impact our fertility, impacts libido because, 

Tina: We’re always ready to run,

Kylie: Always ready to run. We don’t have to be safe. Yeah, don’t have time for a quick shag behind the book because, we don’t know where that bear is going to turn up. And then when we hit perimenopause and menopause, it’s like the whole thing is, is someone’s just throwing petrol on the fire.

Tina: Yeah. Because your system needs to recalibrate again. And so it’s like, you’re always recalibrating. Yeah. And most of us do that from a place of lack of knowledge as well. Like I think we learn more as we get older about our internal workings in our systems and how food impacts that and all the rest of it.

But then you’ve got that step between knowing that information, knowing what you should be doing, and then finding the way to be able to do that. And that safety in doing that, because, well, I lost weight a few years ago. I haven’t gained that much [00:21:00] back, but I’ve gained enough back that I’m uncomfortable in my skin at the moment.

But there’s then that safety of, of having people look at you and not knowing whether you’re safe there when people are looking or people making advances that are inappropriate. And so many people are inappropriate in our society, well that’s been my experience, that they don’t know how to interact effectively.

Kylie: Yes, yes. So it’s safer to stay. Yeah. Where you are. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Oh, this is such an interesting conversation. 

Tina: Very intense, isn’t it? 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s, it’s a good one to have just to sort of like bring it out in the open and not normalise it, but just acknowledge it and acknowledge that for a lot of women who are listening, who are sort of resonating with this just to know that you’re not alone.

Absolutely. You’re absolutely not alone. And there is institutes like the Blue Butterfly Institute where you can access [00:22:00] resources and support and it’s a safe space to be, to be heard. 

Tina: Well, we also have a podcast, which I failed to mention earlier because I just have not got my brain with me. And, and that Ruby, who facilitates that space talks to different people about different aspects of trauma each month and gets people to share their stories.

And one of the things that people consistently say about the support groups is that. They felt so alone. They come along to a support group and they listen to other women speak who are using words that have been in their head. And they go, Oh my God, our situations aren’t identical, but they get it. I don’t have to explain stuff and I don’t have to hold back.

This is a safe space. Yes. Having said that, support groups aren’t for everyone because they can also be very activating when you’re hearing other people’s trauma. And if It can impact your own sense of your own self. So they’re not always workable for everybody. [00:23:00] We are looking to set up a mentoring system within that this year, though, and I’m trialing it with a couple of our Crisolites at the moment who say it’s going brilliantly, where they just have them as a contact.

So with our support groups, we also have a messenger thread that people access. So if something comes up, they can then. put it in there in between the monthly meetings. So there’s lots of support. People have access to me as well. We field a lot of phone calls that are one offs about what do I do about this.

We’ve got a legal support person as well who can give advice to people if they want to access the court processes. So we’ve got more resources than probably what I’ve shared, but it’s all on the website. Site on our Facebook and Instagram and 

Kylie: Great. So we’ll put that in the show notes. So it’s thebluebutterflyinstitute.org.au

Yeah. And what’s the name of the podcast, Tina 

Tina: The Cocoon. The Oh, beautiful. . Yeah. And so it’s, it’s The Cocoon Podcast. And we’ve got the Cocoon Support [00:24:00] groups as well. Yeah. 

Kylie: Okay. So I’ll make sure all of those details go in our show notes. So if anyone would like to just explore and, you know, see what is on offer at the Blue Butterfly Institute.

Tina and her team are there to support. So, anything today from today’s conversation, if we resonated with, with one or two or a few of you and given you the pathway there to, to explore sort of support options. Then, you know, that’s what we want. All right.

Well, thank you so much. It has been a great conversation and I’m sure this is a conversation that I would love to revisit. And I do wish you well with all of the plans that you’ve got for the Blue Butterfly Institute. I think it’s amazing. And I love just connecting with women who identified the need to support other women.

And I think, what it’s saying as women we rise together. 

Tina: Yeah, that’s how we thrive, I think. 

Kylie: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. [00:25:00] It has been amazing. Great conversation. So thank you for coming on the show. 

Tina: Thank you for having me and letting me speak about something that is very dear to my heart.

Kylie: Yeah, absolutely. All right, everyone. Well, thank you for listening. I hope you found this episode helpful, enlightening, maybe it’s a conversation that who knows you might be having with someone one day and this might just sort of. You might be able to hold the space for someone else.

And then that’s how it works. All right, everyone. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Tina, for coming along and see you in the next episode.

 Thank you for taking the time to listen today. You can head on over to the show notes at kyliepinwill.com/podcast where you’ll find all the links. Now, before we go, it would mean the world to me if you’d head on over to your favorite podcast channel, subscribe and leave a review. Don’t forget to share it with your friends.

Then stay tuned for next week’s episode and I can’t wait to see you [00:26:00] then.