Transcript

Kylie: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Hormone Hub. Today I am very excited to have a very special guest, another special guest I found on the [00:01:00] beautiful worldwide web. We are talking to Joy. Oh Joy, and I do apologize if I’m gonna get your name wrong. 

Joy: I knew you were gonna, I should have told you . You should have asked that beforehand.

Kylie: Imboden Overstreet. Joy Imboden Overstreet. So, Joy, it is an absolute delight to have you here. I read a bit about your story and what jumped out at me was the fact that you are a very vibrant, active, still working, healthy looking 82 year old lady, which is amazing. And you’ve, you’ve said in your little profile that you have turned a lot of lemons into lemonade along the way, which I loved.

So today Joy’s gonna have a chat to us. She has also recently authored a book, which we’re gonna talk about, you know, and her book is very relevant to a lot of our ladies here, and how she was pretty much back in the [00:02:00] seventies almost a, a pioneer really for, you know, long before there was intuitive eating and anti dieting and all of those things. Joy, you know, was doing her own program Thin Within, so we’ll have a chat about that and you know, how that sort of came about. But welcome, Joy, it’s a joy to have you here. 

Joy: It’s a pleasure to be talking to somebody so far away, and it sounds like you, looks like you’re right next door. 

Kylie: Absolutely. Yep. The beauty of technology. So just for everybody listening, Joy is in Portland, Oregon, and I am in Noosa in Queensland, Australia. So we’ve, we’ve managed to get the time zones to align and all the tech working so far so good. So joy, tell us a bit about yourself. You have an amazing story. 

Joy: Well, it’s a, it’s a long story and we’re not gonna have a week to tell it. So the, [00:03:00] probably the parts that your listeners would be most interested in is what happened in the seventies when I, uh, well see 1974, my husband died of cancer and I was left with two small children to raise on my own.

And a lot of, um, negative feelings, shall we say. A lot of really horrible feelings. And yeah, my solution to that was to eat and then to diet, because those were the things that I’ve been practicing for years, since I had a, well, I gained something like 25 pounds in one summer when I was 15, and that kind of set me off on the path of dieting for a long time. And those were the days. I, I have to stop and read to you one of the things that really influenced in a not a good way. 

Kylie: Yeah, sure. 

Joy: Was this book, was this book called, Can you see [00:04:00] it? The, The Thin Book by a formerly fat psychiatrist. Who came out in the sixties and his very first chapter, can you see the title?

Fatness is A Sickness. Right. Okay. So let, I’m gonna read you just the first few, couple sentences. Being Fat is a Sickness. For our purposes you are fat and sick if you are at all overweight. This applies whether you are mildly thick, that is three or four pounds overweight or deathly sick. That is some 75 pounds or more overweight. Like many sicknesses, neglect will result in the acute becoming chronic and the benign becoming malignant. So regardless of how overweight and sick you are, please pay heed. Yeah, most of all, it oh yeah, makes you [00:05:00] look fat and clumsy and ugly and worse yet indistinguishable for, from your fellow fat man.

All fat people look alike because, you know, blah, blah. I mean, it was just like, Wow. Horrible. Yeah, horrible. That was his first, first paragraph of the first chapter of this book. And that was kind of like where we were and we were, I remember my high school friends were doing Metrical, which is this disgusting, slim fast kind of little can of diet was basically infamil, you know, infant formula for grownups. Yeah. With a little chocolate added. Yep. Anyway, so, uh, when my husband died, I sort of started dieting , trying every diet that I could think of. I had, you know, scores of books and, and magazines and, and none of them worked because I cheated on every one of them within 12 hours.

I mean, I was just totally incapable of following a diet I keep, I would, I [00:06:00] would, um, adjust it so that it worked for me. But then that was, at any rate, so I got to the place where I was, that was all I was thinking about all day long. I mean, it was horrible. Yeah. And I was really close to suicide. I was so desperate.

Yeah. I mean, it was, it was crazy. And it’s, it’s embarrassing to tell it now, but it’s, this was how I was feeling. Yeah. Yeah. And I realized that if I killed myself, of course my children would be orphans. That would not be such a good idea. And I adored them. So I quit dieting completely and decided I had to do something else.

And the first thing I decided to do was to tell the truth about what I was eating. Yeah. Because I was, I was a grazer, you know, just nibbling all day long and I, uh, was particularly fond of cleaning up my kids’ crusts and stuff they left on their plates and when they’re, you know, preschoolers, they leave a lot and yeah.

And you would think it was disgusting, [00:07:00] but I thought, you know, I was part of the generation that was the Clean Plate Club and I, and if they weren’t gonna clean their plates, I would do it. 

Kylie: Oh, so i, I’ll put my hand up and say, I used to eat their crusts and put extra peanut butter on it. 

Joy: Right? Of course. Why not? Yes. So, so, anyway, I started writing down all that I was eating and just the process of writing down exactly what I was eating. I wasn’t counting calories or anything. I was just like, three bites of this and two bites of that. And the kids crust with a little extra peanut butter of that. Yeah. Cause I did that too. And just the process of writing it down started to give me an idea of how much I was eating and, and how much I was eating that I didn’t even like, obviously.

Yeah. I mean, so that was, that was step one. And then a couple of weeks. I mean, it wasn’t long at all. A couple of weeks after this decision I was already [00:08:00] feeling a little bit more in control of myself. I had breakfast with a friend who was taking my kids for the morning to, for a play date. And she was just sitting down to breakfast when I arrived and she, asked me if I’d like to join her.

And of course I said, Well, just a cup of coffee because, you know, I’m on a diet sort of. And she was having a piece of pie, a piece of cherry pie that she had just baked. And so we sat there and I’m watching her eat the pie with my black coffee. And then about halfway through this piece of pie, she patted her stomach and said, You know what?

This is great and I’m full. And she pulled the garbage can over to her and tossed the piece of pie what was left of it into the garbage can. Yeah. And this blew my poor little brain. I mean, you just do not throw away perfectly good food and particularly pie [00:09:00] and you know, you don’t also eat pie for breakfast.

Kylie: Homemade, beautiful pie fresh on the oven. Yeah. 

Joy: It was, everything about it was wrong. And uh, and so I sort of looked at her and I, she’s was this skinny little gal. I mean she was really birdlike and I thought there is something that Carol knows that I don’t know. Yeah. That she is, she is relating to food in a way that is so foreign to me.

I need to understand more about it. And I realized that, you know, this is an assumption I made and I, I suspect I’m right, that the people who write the diet books and the diets and invent the diet have their own weight problems. I mean, they may be, they may look thin on the outside, but they’re fat still in their heads.

And what, what I was, was fat in my head, plus some pounds. Yeah. Yeah. And I needed to see [00:10:00] if perhaps, I mean there, I don’t know if you know who Abraham Maslow is, was. He was a positive psych. He was like the first positive psychologist and he, he, his theory was that we were wasting a lot of time studying people who did not have their shit together, that we needed to be looking at people who were healthy in various emotional ways. Yes. And so I thought to myself, maybe I need to be studying people who do not have weight problems. Yeah. Who are, and, and you can’t of course tell by looking at somebody whether they have a weight problem or not, because a lot of the stuff that’s is, is invisible.

It’s going on in the head. There are a lot of, there are a lot of very thin people walking around with fat heads. 

Kylie: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I, I always say, yeah, to women who sort of tell me, Oh, well all my friends are thin and they can eat what they want. And I said, No. I said, You know, even, [00:11:00] regardless of what they look like, a lot of people carry a lot of stuff, a lot of stories in their head.

A hundred percent. Yeah. 

Joy: Yeah. So anyway, I started sort of following people around and watching them eat and talking to them about how they felt about food and what their attitudes and beliefs about it were. Yes. And, and I, uh, sort of assembled a list of, of what I called thin behaviors. Yep. And started to act like that instead of acting like a fat person, which meant that I didn’t eat what I didn’t like.

And if I wasn’t hungry, I didn’t eat. Yeah. And if I was full, I stopped eating. Yep. And those became the foundational, uh, rules. They weren’t rules, but they were, well, we called them at thin within. So anyway, after this I started, I created a, a series of workshops I called Thin Within because, that’s what I wanted to be myself.

I wanted to be [00:12:00] not so much thin outside, but thin in my head. And so, anyway, we had some, some rules. We called them the optimum conditions for conscious eating, meaning that these are like best practices if you really wanna be mindful, and they involved paying attention to your hunger signals and being present, getting to the table when your food does, in your head. Yeah. And at, you know, actually experiencing the food in the present moment as opposed to your ideas about the food. Yes. So just because you have the idea that you love chocolate doesn’t mean that this particular chocolate brownie is going to be as good as you thought, it often is not, and, but if you’ve already decided I love chocolate, you know, you inhale the whole thing and yeah end of story. [00:13:00] So yeah, that’s a long story. 

Kylie: Yeah that’s great and very much in alignment with the way, you know, I work with women and, and get them to think about food, and I always use the, the croissant analogy. And I’m sure all my clients are going, Oh, here she goes again with the bloody croissants.

Joy: Oh, sounds good. 

Kylie: So, you know, so my thing is, you know, if you wanna have a croissant and that could be, you know, a cheese plate, a chocolate brownie, you know, whatever it is for you. Insert that here. Mine, Mine just coincidentally might be the, might be the croissant. So we have got this patisserie., and it’s about 20 minutes drive from my house, you know, so if I am going to have a croissant, which, you know, I will, I do every now and then, you know, I will drive to this particular patisserie.

I will have a cup of coffee. I will sit down, you know, with or without a friend who, you know, [00:14:00] whoever’s around or not around at the time, and I will enjoy every single mouthful of that croissant. It’s beautiful. It’s come fresh out of the oven. It’s, they serve them warm. It’s the perfect, it’s perfect, you know?

And I have my coffee and I enjoy it, and I eat it slowly and I just love it. And it’s, in my head it’s my kind of, I get to sit and I get to be still, with my croissant and I enjoy it, and you know what I mean? Then I let it go. And I might not think about that croissant for another three or four months, you know?

And then, and sometimes it might be a week and I’m going, Oh, about that croissant. Maybe I should go back. But it’s, and it’s coming to the table, it’s sitting down. And whether it’s the cherry pie or the croissant or the brownie or whatever, it’s, you know, And I’ve done it in other places and I sat down, I’ve had a mouthful of the croissant, and it’s been, [00:15:00] like greasy and I’ve just gone, Yeah, no, can’t do it, you know, and that, that’s not the croissant for me. So, yeah. 

Joy: You know, that is right in line with my thinking and my behavior and yeah, we actually had a term for your croissant, we called it, well we called it two things. We call them teasers and pleasers. And that was a, that would be a pleaser. Yeah.

And a pleaser is a thing that you don’t, it’s not in front of you, but you have the idea of this delicious, wonderful thing. Yeah. And you have to do, make some sort of effort to get it. I mean, you have to drive 20 minutes and set aside time and so forth. But once you’ve had it, it is just, you’re totally satisfied and you, you don’t need anymore. Teaser on the other hand, is the bowl of chips that, at the party [00:16:00] or the candy on the secretary’s counter. Yep. Or the Halloween candy that your kid brought home and it’s there and you weren’t hungry, but you saw it and you’re like, Okay, I’ll have one. And then, you know. And so it’s not satisfying. The other kind of teaser is diet food, like I can’t have a croissant, so I’m gonna have a sugarless cookie or a diet soda or a, or celery. I’m gonna have a lot of celery. Yeah. And we eat a lot of celery. And you’re still. You know, it’s like you still gotta go and get the croissant, so it’s, it’s a question of being discerning.

What, what kind of food is this? Is this a teaser or is it a pleaser? Because you have to know that the teaser will not do it. It just won’t. 

Kylie: Yes, yes. I love that. I [00:17:00] love that. And, and that sort of, yeah, why I always sort of back it up, go for the best option you can have of whatever it is that you’re after. Cause yeah, otherwise it just becomes, if they’re just teasers, that hand to mouth kinda thing.

Right. Ok. So, So Thin Within was, you know, such a big success at the time in, you know, and all sort of happened and this is exciting for an Aussie, in that San Francisco Bay area. So, you know, by the time the eighties sort of turned around, you left. Why was that? 

Joy: Well, the first thing is, I had resolved my weight problem.

I mean, it was gone. It. You know, I, I worked really hard at waking myself up to, I mean, it was a, it was a process of, a process of, of implementing challenging practices, you know, awareness practices and kind of taking myself to task and listening [00:18:00] to my stories and excuses that I had used to eat more than I needed.

 But, but by 1980 I was like, so done and I was, I was, I was done of listening to what I call fat stories, you know, this like, oh, there’s this, and then that happened, and then that is like, okay. No stop to, you know, it’s like, stop with the stories. Let’s just get started on the plan and, and, and make steps.

And, and so I left with the intent, oh, and I did, I went to grad school in public health, but I also met a man and fell in love and we had a kid, my third child, and so it just started me on a whole other, life path and, and it, so I just, I had intended when I left to write the book about it, but, uh, [00:19:00] I got involved in so many other things.

Kylie: Yeah, yeah, of course. 

Joy: And then, and then my 80th birthday was approaching and I’m like, ugh. I still haven’t written the book, but I do not, I love that 40 years later, right? Yeah. I had all these stories of why I shouldn’t or couldn’t and so forth, and, and so I finally sort of sat myself down and, and wrote it, and I, I’m, I’m actually glad that I took that long because I had a lot more to say about it.

Yeah from that distance, and a lot of, could add sort of neuroscience and cognitive behavioral stuff. The, the things that we did back in the seventies were a combination of my intuition and experience. I mean, it was very, the whole process was very experiential. It was not a heady thing. Yeah. And, and so, It was shaped by [00:20:00] my own experience and the experience of our participants.

Cause they, there was a lot of sharing and I learned a lot. And they learned a lot and that’s the bad thing I think about writing a book. And we’re even about this whole period of time when we’re doing things remotely or by Zoom because of covid and people aren’t doing groups anymore. Or at least not many.

And honestly, it’s so helpful when you are in a group with other people who, who share your challenges, but, but are different. Cause we’re all different. We have different stories and different excuses. And different solutions. And just being in a group with people who are working on the same thing and hearing their experiences of what’s working and what’s not working.

It’s just like, oh. I had no idea that was true for me. But you know, when you say it, I realize, Oh, I do that too. 

Kylie: And I think also for women, you know, to realize that they’re not going through this alone. Right. I think it becomes a very isolated, [00:22:00] very, Oh, I’m the only one who is struggling with my weight.

I’m the only one who, who doesn’t have the willpower to stick to something that works. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so I, I hear those sort of stories a lot. 

Joy: I bet you do. Yeah, it was, it was very, particularly for people who didn’t have a lot of weight to lose. Yeah. Who just had a lot of stuff going on in their head.

Yep. It’s very shame, shameful. They felt embarrassed that they would be so, having such a hard time when it didn’t show on the outside. 

Kylie: Yeah, yeah. Because I get women sort of saying, Oh, it’s only a few pounds, or it’s only a few kilos, but I don’t like the way I feel and, and I think I’ve spoken to enough women that it doesn’t matter, you know, we talk kilos rather than pounds here in Australia.

Like, it could be two kilos, it could be 22 kilos. It actually, the number doesn’t matter if you don’t feel good in your own skin and if you don’t have that, a good relationship with your body and a [00:23:00] good relationship with food, you know, you just don’t. And I think at the end of the day, that’s what we want, is we wanna feel good in our own skin and, you know, feel in control that we’ve got control over, you know, food, the wine, whatever. It’s, that’s going, what our stories are about for sure. 

Joy: Yeah. That was the other thing that was so depressing, was that I felt so out of control, you know? And was like, here I am a grown woman with responsibilities and education and I cannot control my eating. And, and that’s, that was so shameful. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so fast forward and I haven’t dieted since, since then, or even thought about, I have not worried about my weight. The, the other thing that I wanted to mention is I think some people have the idea that when they get to whatever the goal [00:24:00] is, and it’s usually a number of pounds or kilos, that, that everything will be then, Perfect. Hunky dory. Yeah. Yeah. And the, the prince will show up, the perfect job offer. Yeah. Rainbows, puppies, all that stuff. And it’s just. And so, I like to tell people that, that it’s not, that nothing’s gonna change, I mean, the angels will sing for like five minutes and then it’s chop wood and carry water just like yesterday.

And yeah, get on with life. And so they really need to be thinking about why they’re doing this. What, what is this for. Who? I mean, there are plenty of people who carry a lot of weight and just go on and do the thing, whatever the thing is. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s, it’s really not gonna be any different when you don’t have [00:25:00] that anymore.

Yeah. So just why not get started now? 

Kylie: Yeah, absolutely. And can I just ask, we’ll circle back to the cherry pie paradox. Ok. But just what, given you know, your, in your eighties and you know, you’ve got this amazing energy and you know everything about you just beams. You know, like if you ladies, if you could see, and you’ll see it, it’ll come through in Joy’s photo.

But what would you say, because I work with a lot of women who are struggling at the moment with perimenopause, menopause, you know, and obviously energy is a big part of that and a lot of them are struggling with this weight gain that has just started. For some of them it’s been a lifelong thing. For others it’s, you know, a new, you know, the hormonal changes.

But, you know, if these women are sort of like 45 to 50 and here you are sitting at 82, what would you [00:26:00] tell, you know, what would your advice be for these, these ladies? 

Joy: Yeah, I would say couple things. One is it, it gets better, it really does. It really does get better and I mean 45, you know, the, the 35 to 45, maybe to 50 is like peak stress time.

I mean, there’s just so much. You’ve got kids at home, you’ve got your job. You maybe you’ve got ailing parents, you’ve got everything, and maybe you have a spouse that is not particularly helpful and maybe you’re doing too much, and need to set some boundaries. But, It does get better. And, so my, I, I did remarry in 1981-2 and stayed married to that guy who I adored.

 But there were some problems. And in 2000, 2001, we [00:27:00] sent our third child or my third child off to college. I was done. I had a, I’d had a, a child at home for 33 years straight and I was so done. 

Kylie: Can’t even imagine. 

Joy: So done. And I, and I, I had the first husband, you know, got sick and died and that was a couple years.

This second husband had turned out to be bipolar and had alcohol issues, and it was like, and he was like, Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talkative all the time and needing a lot of attention. And I was like, so when Wiley left for college, I got in my car and with the dog and drove across the country. I took nine weeks of a sabbatical and honestly, It was the best thing I have ever, ever, ever done in my whole life.

And I, I suggest [00:28:00] that, I mean, I don’t know that every, anyone, everybody can do that sort of thing, but taking time alone to just be with yourself. And I, I honestly, when I left, I was terrified that all the psychological demons that have been, that I’d pressed down during those stressful years would pop up and attack me on the road and I’d be a sniveling mess. Uh, I snivelled for about the first 12 hours. It was like, wahooo, and I just kind of followed my nose. I mean, I had sort of some places I wanted to see, but I just kind of drove where the sign looked interesting and… 

Kylie: That is my kinda travel. 

Joy: Yeah, it was great. And I, I [00:29:00] think most women don’t get any time alone and no time to listen to themselves think.

I mean, I didn’t even listen to the radio, so, Well, I mean, I might have, if the radio had been, the kind of sound or the, the kind of stations you get in the middle of the country I didn’t wanna hear, so. 

Kylie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I love that. And I think that was what I, what really drew me to your story and, you know, you know, my husband, we, you know, I do love him and, you know, we would probably get in the car together and drive and leave for nine weeks and leave our kids.

So my youngest is still 13, so we’re at home with her for a while yet. Yeah. But. Right. Yes. The, uh, thought of driving and leaving would be, you know, very tempting, I think, but I, I love the fact that you did it and, you know, and I think it’s, it’s not to say that everyone needs to just up and [00:30:00] leave, but it’s the option is there and we can set those boundaries to give ourselves our own space and our own, you know, we need to look after ourselves first because, at this age and stage is, you know, we are giving out to our kids, as you said, to our partners, to our jobs, to our parents, to our families, to our communities, and it’s we, you can’t pour from an empty cup. So if you are not looking after yourself, and your own needs, you know, this is where we tend to, you know, some people turn to food, others turn to wine, others turn to, you know, inwards and depression, you know, and overwhelm and you know, all of that. 

Joy: Buying stuff.

Kylie: Buying stuff online. I know. Yeah guilty of that too. So, yeah. So I think Joy, you’re, you’re an amazing example of, of what’s possible, you know? Definitely. 

Joy: Well, I think, I think, I was a resentful [00:31:00] wife. Honestly. I had moments of just being pissed off a lot because I felt like I was doing so much and they were just kind of not doing, not carrying the load that I felt, I felt I was carrying.

And I wish that I’d had the advice I heard the other day, which was when you’re jealous of, of, and feeling resentful, It’s really not the problem of the person that you’re feeling resent, you know, the partner, kid, whatever. It’s like you are not getting something you need. Right. And you need to figure out what that is.

Yep. And figure out how you can ask for it. Yes. And say, I need this thing that I’m not getting. And I, I don’t like being pissed off at you because you have it. You can just go off and do this thing. And I’m stuck here with the kids or with the, Yeah. Whatever, and I need to figure out how I can take care of myself. [00:32:00] Yeah. Yeah. It’s, and without blaming, the other person. 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. Cause at the end of the day, we are the ones responsible for our own happiness. Yes. You know, and, and you know, it’s only us that can control that. But some women, you know, I actually, I do recognize that it’s overwhelming and, and you know, this might be the first time that this is dropping into, to awareness for some, for some of our listeners that you actually get to control how you feel and, and your outcome as well. Easier said than done. 

Joy: Yeah. Right. The other thing that, uh, my daughter is 54, 55 and she, during this particular period of time, the menopausal middle, she, [00:33:00] she went to, to therapy and she said all of her friends are doing therapy. Yeah. And, and, and so whenever I would, uh, say to her, I’m struggling with this thing or that, she like, Why don’t you, why don’t you go see a therapist?

And so, uh, I think at this moment, you know, at the, at that period you, at 50, at that midpoint of life, therapy or something, some kind of self examination and reevaluation is a really good idea. Because you’re closing in on the first half of your life and looking forward to the unknown? I mean, you don’t know what’s ahead.

I mean, it could be, Yeah, could be anything. So, well, like it gets better.

I’m sure for some people it gets worse, but I think that [00:34:00] understanding from reading is that, that older people are actually happier than younger people. Yeah. That the, that the midlife is kind of like the most unhappy that many people are. 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Wow. So, yeah, and that’s it. And I think, you know, there’s certainly hormonal changes, but there’s a lot going on just with life right now, you know?

Yes. Alright. So sort swing back to the, the cherry pie paradox. First up, how is the Cherry Pie paradox different from all the other kind of anti diet books out there? Diet books. 

Joy: Yeah, that’s a good question. I, The truth is that I actually don’t read those books, so I don’t know for sure but I’m done with it.

So the Cherry paradox really, so Thin [00:35:00] Within was a workshop that took place over six weeks, and then there were a couple follow up sessions after that. So you know, you could be involved for like three months. Yeah. And, and we would meet for a couple hours together as a group. And then there was a lot of homework in between.

 And then, and we would meet and be a lot of homework and so forth. And so it was a process. It was definitely a process. It was a, it was a journey that started kind of in the muck of things. Where you know, everything sucks and you’re outta control. And then sort of evaluating where your starting point is and then seeing some of the things that are keeping you stuck and then starting to dismantle them.

But there it is a journey that takes time. And so the book is a step by step process really, of walking through the journey or walking along the journey. And, [00:36:00] So there exercises to, not physical exercises, but, but, writing prompts and, ways to get more in touch with food. 

Kylie: Sounds like you could apply the cherry pie paradox to resolve other kind of like other things not just diet and weight.. 

Joy: Well, the whole idea of it is to become more awake. Period. And when you’re more awake, you can be more and more awake to your, your stories that are not helping and more awake to the beliefs that have kept you stuck and more awake to the realization that a lot of these beliefs started when you were a kid and didn’t know any better and that those beliefs can be about almost anything. Yeah. Not just food. And so, you’re more awake and then once you’re kind of more in touch with how you’re [00:37:00] feeling and how you got there, you can be more intentional about what you’re gonna do next. About your choices.

And so I think the whole idea is it leads to a more intentional way of life. Yeah. And more intentional choosing of friends, choosing of activities, more aware of your surroundings. I mean, to live in a, in a home that pleases you. That expresses who you are. Yep. All of that. 

Kylie: Yeah, I love that.

And I love that, you know, it’s choosing what serves you and choosing what brings you joy and letting go of what’s not serving you anymore. Cause I think we get caught so caught up in the busyness of life that we think we only know one way and we don’t think of, you know, there’s actually, you know, that that doesn’t work for me anymore.

So, you know, the fact that you can apply that to, to food, but also to like the bigger scheme of life, I think is beautiful. 

Joy: Yeah. [00:38:00] So the paradox, the cherry pie paradox, the paradox is that, you know, if you’re a dieter, or you can, you don’t have to diet and you can actually lose weight, by eating cherry pie or not, whatever yours is, croissant. 

Kylie: I had one last week, so I’m good for a couple of months now. Oh, alright, Joy, where can people find the cherry pie paradox and how can they connect with you?

Joy: So we’re not, are we, we’re not zooming, I mean, we are zooming, but we’re, this is gonna be just an audio?

Kylie: It’s audio. 

Joy: So this is the book, The Cherry Pie Paradox, The Surprising Path to diet freedom and lasting weight loss. And, you can find it at Amazon. I mean, it’s in there. I mean, I’ve sold books in Australia, so I know it’s there. [00:39:00] And the audio book is coming out soon, but, I just finished, this is the not for resale proof, but I have now gotten a workbook to go with it, so you can actually do the exercises. you know, The book is really fun because there’s lots of, I mean, I, you can see the picture here. Yeah. There’s, there’s like four, uh, a dozen illustrations by, uh, this gal, my friend who, and they’re all goofy. And the idea is to lighten up because this is not a death march . Yeah. This is, this is an opportunity to engage your curiosity. I mean, it is there are two ingredients that you need to bring to this work. One is curiosity. And the other is compassion. For yourself. Because you have done some stupid things that you regret. We all have.

And it’s like, yeah. [00:40:00] Okay, so what. Done? Yeah. Move on. Yeah. But learn and move on. Yeah. And you know, and, and watching yourself screw up and failure is great. Because you can see Uhoh that didn’t work. What, where did I go wrong there? And that curiosity, uh, serves you in that regard as well. So, 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah, very much. Well, Joy, I will put all of those details and I’ll put the link, to the book and to your website in the show notes. 

Joy: So, oh, and I have one other thing. I have, you know, if your listeners want, I have a website, Joy overstreet.com. And if they wanna contact me [email protected], I and ask me for their, the winning formula I have the, the, the optimum conditions for conscious eating. We now call it the winning formula. Cause my editor said, optimum conditions for conscious eating. That sounds like what?[00:41:00] 

So it’s now called the winning formula, but I’ll be glad to send them the, the, I don’t know, eight or whatever. 

Kylie: Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. Alright, well I will put all of your, contact details in our show notes so our listeners can access your website access. And they can also put the link in there to, so they can purchase the Cherry Pie paradox as well. So thank you Joy for joining us today. It has been an absolute delight speaking. 

Joy: A total delight for me to meet you. Really. I’m thinking I’ve gotta go down to Queensland. See that salt air. 

Kylie: You sure do. 

Joy: Yeah. I’m not gonna bring my, my computer. 

Kylie: Just a little aside before Joy and I jumped in, I’m having a few computer issues because I live by the beach.

The back [00:42:00] of my computer has rusted and I can’t plug in my microphone anymore. So, you know, good problems to have. Yes. Thank you, Joy. It’s been an absolute pleasure and if you wanna find out more about joy and how to connect with her details are in the show notes. Thanks for listening everyone. See you next week on The Hormone Hub.