Transcript

Kylie: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the hormone hub, everyone. Today I am so excited. I have got Jo Zulaica here with me and Jo is joining us from Utah in the states. Jo is a women’s leadership coach. So Jo works with professional women, but also, you know, just women across the board, sort of in that midlife period.

So, you know, and addressing all the things that hold us back. So, you know, things like that, negative self talk, we’ve all got that little jibber jabber in the back of our heads that, you know, tell us we’re not good enough. We’re not enough. We’re not, you know, young enough, smart enough. Thin enough, you know, all of those, all of the voices, we’ve all got it.

I’ve got it. Pops up every now and then I am getting better at squishing it down, but you know, it’s still there. Jo also helps women manage through people pleasing, because we all, I think it’s a natural sort of. Thing as [00:01:00] women that we, you know, and I think we’re all so capable. We’re a bit too capable for our own goods sometimes.

And we just take on more and we take on more and we, we add things onto in sort of like the analogy of a basket. That we sort of, you know, put things in our basket and we don’t actually start to notice that when that basket is overflowing and we’ve got things spewing out of our basket and we sort of say, yeah, yeah, no, I can do that.

I’ll do that. I’ll do that. And you know, we keep kids pleased. We keep partners pleased. We keep parents pleased, community pleased. And you know, sometimes that’s at our detriment and also, you know, and I, I dunno if it’s a, I think it partly is hormonal, but just that overwhelm. Inability to make decisions, you know, that will help us because we tend to sort of naturally wanna stay safe and stuck in our own little space.

So these are some of the things that we’re gonna jump into with Jo today. So Jo, welcome to the show. I’ve been so excited to do [00:02:00] this interview with you. 

Jo: Thank you Kylie. It’s such a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Kylie: Oh, absolute pleasure. So, Jo, would you like to tell us sort of a bit about yourself and then, and also how you got into this sort of area?

Jo: Yeah. Thanks Kylie. Sure. So I’m a woman in her mid fifties. I do live in the states. I’m married and I have two kids and I have been in leadership development my entire life, helping people all sorts of people, level up their leadership, but what I’ve found Kylie is I’ve grown older and as my community has also aged, you know, the people that are around me that have, have been in my community, I’ve really focused on, this stage of life for women where we find ourselves almost in sort of this identity crisis, where we’ve been sort of like you talked about people pleasing, which is definitely a, a big part of what I coach around and [00:03:00] teach and what I’m, what is in my network and my community, finding that women have been so habitualised, like, socialised have so fallen into these patterns of being the helper, like making other people, satisfied, complete, you know, their dentist appointments made, their school shopping done, that, that hyper capable way that you described the way women start to function is almost like this distortion from knowing who they are inside, because they’ve been so habitually pleasing and serving and helping everybody else outside of themselves. So I don’t know, it kind of went really deep there super quick, but [00:04:00] yeah, it’s, I’m really called and really spurred forward to speak with women about that process of putting ourselves last on the list or falling into that habit of serving and pleasing and helping and working so hard for other people’s needs and then sort of leaving ourselves behind.

Kylie: Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, it’s something that, that is starting to sort of I guess drop in my head more and more is yes. I’m, you know, 51 now. And yes. You know, like while I don’t necessarily love that number and I kind of, because I still feel 30, you know, I don’t feel 50. So it’s, but the thing that’s sort of starting to drop in my head is like, well, hang on a second.

My kids, you know, some of them drive now, they’re a bit more independent. They’re not, you know, and I’m actually getting really excited because I am [00:05:00] not gonna be an old lady anytime soon, that’s just not happening. So, and you know, like I look at my parents and my parents’ friends and they’re still out and they’re active and they’re engaged and it’s, you know, and then I look at other people sort of in their mid seventies who are like, they’ve already written themselves up as old, you know, they’re around drinking cups of tea all day, but it’s sort of like, I I’m excited because I’ve potentially got another 30, 40 years left and I want that to be fun and I want it to be, you know, engaged, you know, I wanna be engaged with life and involved and active and, you know, and I think we are sort of really at that crossroads, which is beautiful because. You know, yes we’ve still got family that’s important, but they’re, I guess, demands on our time and our needs, adult kids always need their parents.

 I still need my mom but it’s sort of like, you know, there’s just this shift [00:06:00] in who I am. Yeah. Yeah. It’s sort of like now my whole identity isn’t necessarily mum first, right. It always will be in my heart, but it’s actually, you know, I’ve deliberately brought my kids up to be independent. 

So I want them to fly the nest and I, yeah. Excited about that. 

Jo: You know, what I think is serving you so well there, Kylie is that, that your work as a nutritionist and helping women and, it’s like sparked this passion in you so that you have kept alive that fire of who you are outside of your identity as a mom, as a, a community member, all the other things.

But I think that it can be super easy to, to forget that if we don’t tap into our passion or our. Purpose or our, you know, what we’re meant to do outside of the traditional female roles that society gives us, but kudos to you because you see a path for how you can be an empty nester and, [00:07:00] and still have passion and service and connection where a lot of women, I think, can we, we all can do this fall so easily into just the, the role of, being the mom, being the female figure in the family. And so who are you then when the kids fly the nest? 

Kylie: Yeah, definitely. And I think that’s where a lot of our community are sort of struggling with because they’ve never, yes, they might have careers, they might have jobs, but yeah, they haven’t really, you know, considered themselves so much, you know, and where, you know, is their health a priority. If it’s not, you know, why aren’t they taking the steps that they need to, if is it there, you know, they need, you know, more stimulation outside the home and you know, one of the things, the conversation I’ve had so many times is like, I’ve asked women, okay, well, what can you do for you?

You know? And it’s been such a long time since they’ve actually done it. And I sort of, you know, what hobbies, what do you enjoy? And they sort of sit [00:08:00] there with this blank face and they go, oh, actually don’t know. And it’s, you know, and I think we just get caught up in our day to day life that we do sort of let our own passions slide.

 And it’s funny, I had a conversation the other day with a lady and I said, well, what did you do? You know, what did you love doing before you had kids? She goes, oh yeah. Well, I, you know, I was a dancer and I did this and I did that. And I’m like, well, why can’t you do that now? She’s like, oh, I’m 20 kilos heavier and blah, blah, blah.

And I said, well, maybe if you were dancing, that would help with the twenty kilos. And she’s like, oh. 

Jo: Yeah, everything shifts, right. It’s all connected. 

Kylie: Hundred percent. And it’s that, that, I guess that mental load and lifting that and lifting that, you know, I guess we, we sort of tend to limit ourselves in our own heads because we’re so, you know, naturally we are exhausted, you know, that’s a hormonal shift that makes us tired. You know, we, we are carrying all the [00:09:00] balls. We’re, you know, our basket that we’re carrying around is full. So we are a bit tired, but I think part of that is because we, we haven’t got that thing that lights us up either.

Jo: Right. Right. And so that’s the important thing is to, to come back into knowing who are you and what makes you tick and spending just a little energy inward, even if it feels uncomfortable, if it feels sort of antithetical to your, to your notion of how you should be focusing on other people and maybe you shouldn’t be selfish.

And these types of ways that we, sort of beat ourselves up and make ourselves eat last, we make ourselves last on the list. We, we feel like that’s the only appropriate way to be, but the, the net effect of that, the, the sum is that we end up just being smaller and smaller and less and less clear on who we are, where our heart beats, [00:10:00] what we’re meant to be and do, and what we want, where our passions are. It’s okay to think that way. It’s not, it’s not selfish. It’s not being a bad mom. It’s not, you know, being self-centered or, or, inappropriately focused. It’s actually really important. 

Kylie: Yeah, for sure.

And where would you suggest, like if we’ve got ladies listening to this going? Yeah, that sounds great. Where do I start? Yeah. Like where would, where would you start? 

Jo: Well, I, I often start with my clients with like the simplest of tasks. It’s sort of, I have this one thing that I have gals do, just called the tune in to you.

 A three step process that you, you do. You put like a little post-it little sticky note on your, on your steering wheel, on your bathroom mirror, on your phone, as it reminds you just to kind of shake yourself out of the autopilot that we can fall into just living our days and [00:11:00] spinning all the plates and doing all the things and ask yourself three questions.

This is like, so this is so elementary. It’s so basic. You know, when we’re talking about your life’s purpose, I’m gonna talk about something very simple to start, which is… 

Kylie: Yeah, I probably went too big, too fast. 

Jo: Right. Yeah. It it, just to, to ask yourself, okay, what am I feeling right now? I could explain these too.

That’s number one. How do I know it? And what do I wanna feel? So there’s just the three questions I have, my new clients ask themselves to tune into themselves. The first is, what am I feeling right now? And that’s just a quick inventory, like, Huh, I actually am a little breathless. I haven’t really been thinking about anything.

I don’t know what I’m feeling. I’ve been racing around. I’m running through my to-do list in my mind. I’m thirsty, you know, things that you can just realize when you take a moment to become more aware to, to do that inventory. Do you know what I mean? [00:12:00] And, and, and then the, how do I know it, is fascinating.

It’s like, you, you actually have to ask yourself, is this like a physical response that I’m perceiving right now? When I tune in, like, am I feeling anxious and buzzing and frenetic in my body. Am I feeling a little panicky emotionally, physically, or is it in my head with like swirling thoughts? Am I just thinking, thinking, thinking, and trying to process a lot of cognitive data.

Think and figure things out? Or am I feeling it? Am I feeling it sort of in an emotional space of like feeling sad or bad or alienated or distant or annoyed or irritable? So when I ask the gals to start tuning into themselves, what we’re doing is we’re, we’re starting to articulate how we process [00:13:00] sensation and incoming inputs.

Is it that we think them, that we feel them or that we experience them sort of physically and viscerally. So is it head, heart or body? I love that. And yeah, just even doing that, Kylie helps just helps like shake up the, the unconscious behavior of getting through your day and being more aware. Wait, hang on, what is going on for me right now? And that leads us to the third question and how do I want to feel? So if a gal is doing this inventory and she realizes that she’s racing in her car to drop off the kids and then go to work, that how she has been feeling is panicky or too busy or overwhelmed or late.

And the way that she knows that is that her body is just like buzzing with, you know, anxiety or with fight or flight [00:14:00] hormones and just feeling sort of on edge. When she asks herself, how do I want to feel? Then she’s inviting that it’s possible to feel different and that it’s a choice. She can consciously decide to slow down, to take a deep cleansing breath, to think about her day in a more strategic way, rather than having her day run over her.

And just that three step process I have found has been like, if you do it over and over and over and over again, what you’re doing is you’re building this fluency, this self knowledge about who you are and how you wanna be. You know, just a very beginning little gem of what needs to come forward so that you’re more knowing what you want out of life.

Kylie: Yeah, I love that. And that’s just such a simple thing and it doesn’t mean you [00:15:00] have to sit and journal and you know, like, that’s great if you can, but yeah, you don’t have to sit journal, meditate, any of that, you can just think about it, you know, and just answer it in your head. And I think to, to sort of start that process and think about how you feel, how you wanna feel, you know, what’s going on in your body.

I, I think that’s really, really great. Yeah. And then how would you sort of suggest, because we’ve all got, like I said, in the intro, we’ve all got this little negative. Oh, who are you to, yeah. Who are you to, and it’s funny. So I’ve had like over the last four weekends, I’ve had four long weekends away. So now that we can travel and we can do all the things, you know, we are now having the catch up.

So one of them was a catch up, you know, at like this beach holiday place that we used to go to all the time, we haven’t been there for, for two years, obviously, and we all went, so there were people coming up from Sydney. We went south. Great weekend. [00:16:00] There was bush walking. There was way too much red wine.

There was laughing. There was, you know, all the things. And the next weekend was in wine country and I was with girlfriends. We were supposed to go for our 50th last year and COVID, couldn’t go. So we had it this weekend and we just laughed the whole weekend. Then I had a weekend away with my husband, it was for our 20th wedding anniversary. So we just had this, you know, great weekend away. And again, it was, the sun was shining. It was fun. There was no kids. And we had like, proper conversations that we haven’t had since probably the last time we went away together. This weekend just gone I had a weekend away with, I’m in a mastermind like a business group and it was, you know, with our mastermind group and it was fantastic. And the conversations that we had about, you know, what are our biggest dreams? What are our biggest [00:17:00] things? And just to be surrounded by women, having those big conversations was huge.

And then I got back and then, you know, I was sort of on a high and, and one of my clients sort of said to me, she goes, oh, I would love to go away for a weekend, but I can’t. Like of course you can, you know, you just make it happen. And okay. Four weekends in a row was probably a bit extreme and ideally I would’ve loved to have strung it out a bit longer or spaced it a bit better, but it was just the way it was and it worked, you know, the kids were fine.

The, you know, my husband was fine, you know, cause he was with me two of those weekends, but it just worked out that, you know, we’ve got grandparents around now, which we haven’t had for 10 years. We’ve got friends who, you know, are happy to, you know, yeah, sure. I can have your kid for the weekend. No worries.

You know, and it was just, people are, I think more accommodating and supporting you, cause I certainly had more positive reflections back [00:18:00] like, oh wow. That’s great. You know, I’m glad you did that. Good for you, you know, sort of thing. Yeah. Certainly had positive reflections, but you know, it’s, it’s so good for the soul.

Like my cup is full and I feel amazing. 

Jo: I love it, that you’re representing that. Like, we probably need more demonstration of how that can be okay. Yeah. Like somebody who models that for us, that’s not sort of the selfless martyr version of, of motherhood that keeps herself home and feels like, well, me last it’s, it’s giving yourself permission, knowing that you living a big grand life and having that, that environment to talk with your girlfriends about your dreams and your spirit and your desires is the fuel that then will ripple through back to your family.

Like we need to feel really comfortable receiving that kind of attention, like allowing our husbands to [00:19:00] look after the children, and the grandparents and allowing ourselves to spend money and go stay in a hotel or go to wine country because it’s, it actually is the, the richest way that we can feed our family and feed our culture and feed our feed womanhood.

By saying, I matter, I get to do things, I get to inspire and be inspired. Keeping ourselves small doesn’t achieve anything. It doesn’t satisfy anything or anybody? 

Kylie: No, no, definitely. But you know, look, I haven’t always done that and you know, there’s certainly big chunk of my probably thirties and forties where, you know, I was the martyr and I was sort of like, oh, I can’t go away.

I can’t afford that. I can’t, I can’t get someone else to look after my kids. I can’t leave. I can’t, you know, and all of this sort of stuff. So how would you sort of, where, where do we start when we look at addressing that negative, you know, that little [00:20:00] voice. 

Jo: I think it’s born. Yeah, thanks for asking Kylie. I think it’s, it’s like it it’s partly, you know, so socially engendered in us, it’s sort of taught to us at a young age. That’s how we adopted our worldview. Like you know, mommy would say, you know, don’t be too loud or make sure that you, you know, say thank you. And like we were socialized and conditioned to be appropriate people and to be like, you know, functioning well.

And, but it, but it, it becomes distorted when then we only care about what others think of us, right. And that we are all of our activities and our actions and our behaviors and our answers to requests become formulated in a way to please others, because it makes us feel like we’re doing the right work.

We’re doing the good job. Yeah. And I think that that negative inner critic is born of that same spot too, of where, when we mess up, if we’re really socially advanced and I think so many women in your [00:21:00] community are like, they’re very perceptive. They’re very caring. They’re very aware of how they’re coming across.

When you can modulate how you are being to adapt into some different, you know, social structure, like, you know, that we sit up straighter when we’re around somebody that we think is, has influence and we’re more casual and easygoing when we’re at home. Like those are these, these ways that we can really shape shift to fit in. And when we notice ourselves maybe not doing that well, or if we’re displeasing someone or if we make a mistake or we humiliate ourselves or we get it wrong or we feel rejected, that inner critic is gonna crop right up and start screaming at us about all the ways that we should have done it better.

Yeah. And it’s, I think maybe the important thing to note about that is in my experience, I don’t think there’s a single [00:22:00] person that I’ve met woman or man that doesn’t have it. So maybe just understanding it’s part of the human condition that if you are socialized, you’ll have this inner governor that tells you oh, Not so fast, don’t do that.

And so just know, like not shaming ourselves for having it, but also realizing that it doesn’t really serve us anymore. We’re not four years old and we don’t need to be constantly shape shifting to fit in with society. We can be bolder and more courageous. But it’s challenging hey. 

Kylie: Yeah, but I also think, you know, this is part of this liberating part of getting to this age where we just don’t give a damn anymore, you know, like you become, I mean, I certainly, I don’t care what the moms at school think, you know, and it’s, you know, I’m a lot older with my youngest daughter, particularly, I’m a lot [00:23:00] older than a lot of the other moms, you know, who’s first child is the same age as my youngest child, so, and it’s quite funny.

It’s like, I actually don’t care what you think, you know, and it’s, you know, no, I’m not the perfect parent. It’s my third child. And you know, I forget parent teacher night and I forget to send her in the right uniform. I mean, luckily my daughter is very self and I think she’s had to be she’s very self-managing.

So she gets it right. And yeah, I ask her what’s going on. She doesn’t ask me what’s going on. But you know, and I think that’s gonna be benefit her later in life for sure. 

Jo: Yeah. That’s beautiful. 

Kylie: But I know, you know, the whole, you know, the perfect parent and you know, all of that sort of stuff it’s like, I actually don’t, I could not care less. 

Jo: I love it.

Well, as I’m looking at you and you’re looking at me, like we can actually see each other, we both have gray hair. Like we’re also, we’re not buying into that culturally, you know, [00:24:00] required norm that we pretend to look younger than we are, or that that’s something that we, but that’s what, that’s what I think you’re standing for kylie is like, you can be the mom that, that goes off to the wine country, quite happily, and the husband and the grandparents will hold the Fort and you can have your hair look however you damn well please. And that’s, that’s a beautiful model for us to see that you can live authentically and be courageous and be, and be your own, you know, be real with what matters to you. But I think there are lots of gals that maybe feel like that’s too risky, that that will somehow really topple the structure that is just barely holding in place. And they feel afraid to, to somehow shake up that structure that feels safe to fit in to, to make sure they’re gaining favor and that other people are approving.

That’s just [00:25:00] a very, that’s it takes a little while I think, to kind of dissolve some of that, that’s inside of us. 

Kylie: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And that’s it. And I think it’s, I guess for me, like with the whole, you know, hair thing and it sort of like came down to, okay, well, what’s really important to me, you know, like, and certainly, you know, as much as I love my hairdresser, I was sitting for, you know, two hours, every two or three weeks in the hairdresser just to get my roots done. That is not important to me it was just like, I would rather stick a fork in my eye so that was, that was sort of how my hair kind of thing came. And likewise, like I’m not invested in nails, you know, getting my nails done and things like that. Yes. It’s it would be a nice thing to do, but to be honest, like my time, I would rather go for a walk, I would rather catch up with a friend.

I would rather, you know, and I think this is where. I, you know, and it’s been a process for sure, because I was certainly at one point in my life, you know, doing the big gym [00:26:00] workouts, making sure the hair was right. The, you know, everything was, you know, so called perfect. But really, you know, I was probably a pretty crappy mom then, you know, I was so caught up in myself, you know, from a, I guess, a looks point of view that, you know, I probably wasn’t as present as I am now with my kids. Whereas now I’ve sort of let go of all the fluff that I don’t, that isn’t important to me. Yeah. And I think this is where too, what’s important to each of us is different for sure.

But, you know, I kind of recognize the things that didn’t matter, the things that did matter, you know, I’m definitely a nicer person if I’ve been exercising, I definitely feel better within myself if I’ve been eating well. I definitely know I need social connection. You know, I work at home on my own in my own little space.

So if I don’t connect with humans and I think this is why I’m so fired up after the last four weekends, cause I actually had [00:27:00] physical connection with humans instead of, you know, online connection, and yeah, that’s just really, really filled my cup. 

Jo: You know, what you just named right there.

You basically just ran through a very easy for you to name, list of your core values. Yeah. And I don’t know that everybody listening might actually be able to do the same, that, that, you know, human connection is really important that, you know, you’re a nicer person when you’re exercising. And you also know that having like all the external trappings of what, so like a socially acceptable beautiful woman at 51 would look like it. That that’s actually not a high value for you. But that, that eating well and, you know, being on point with what you put in your body that is a value, I think just actually being able to sift and sort through some of those things, how do I wanna eat, how do I wanna be? And how do I get my [00:28:00] energy? How do I restore? How do I fill my cup? What does it look like for me, for an introvert, for a woman who has little kids for, you know, all the, the wide spectrum, each of us can know that for ourselves. And when we do, that’s the powerful way that we can break out of those patterns of people pleasing and being externally validating, seeking, and actually coming back into more agency of, wait, what am I doing today that’s gonna light me up? And when you’re doing that, you are not only filling your own cup, but you’re then being more capable to serve every, all the people in your life. Cause you’re coming from a very abundant place, a very full up, a very happy, a very fulfilled and satisfied and rich place, right?

Kylie: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, love this conversation. So good. Right. [00:29:00] All right, Jo so if people wanna find out a bit more about you and what you do, where can they find you or would you like to tell us a bit about how you, you know, can help women. 

Jo: Yeah. So you did introduce me, so appropriately that I do identify as a women’s leadership coach, but I really talk about women leading their lives, like being a leader inside your life. Like, even if you’re quote unquote, just the leader of your family or the leader of your household, or, you know, you’re in your friend group in all of those spaces, you are, you have the capability to create an impact. And so I’m not just talking about women who are professional and corporate and working outside the home.

All of my work is about a woman finding out for herself from the inside out. How am I leading my life? How do I make an impact? So, the fun ways that you can connect [00:30:00] with me are on Facebook. I’ve got a lovely glorious group called women who lead with heart. That is a free Facebook group, that’s evergreen, open all the time where women from all over the world are inside sharing inspiring content. I like to say it’s for what I call strong and sensitive women. It’s both women who are, you know, making bold moves or desiring to make a big splash, but also feeling too, and, and having that sensitivity and sometimes that people pleasing or negative self talk that that brings that tension of sometimes holding ourselves back.

So it’s just a lovely community of women sharing content that is so supportive and uplifting and inspiring. And I come inside that group once a week and do live trainings on things of like, how do you become more emotionally intelligent or how can you hack your hormones to be happier? Or how do you deal with the inner critic?

Or the, you know, that [00:31:00] self sabotage that happens. So that’s a wonderful way I welcome anybody in your community who’d like to come join there.

Kylie: Thank you. I don’t believe I’m in there yet. 

Jo: Yeah. And then from there I offer all kinds of things. I have women’s leadership retreats that I’ll advertise in there. I have smaller programs of women who really wanna do the deeper work of understanding their leadership from the inside out.

Breaking down some of those negative thought patterns and that imposter syndrome. So that’s, that’s my paid program. That’s called Completely Confident Leadership that you can learn about inside my, my Facebook group as well, but that’s probably the best way to connect and, and feel inspired. And just join a lovely community of like-minded women.

Kylie: Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, Jo, thank you so much for coming on today. I think this has been a really important conversation and it’s, it’s [00:32:00] part of like our bigger picture. So yes, I’m a nutritionist. Yes. We talk about, you know, nutrition and food and hormones and everything.

But I think it, it goes beyond that. We need to sort of, you know, from a who we are and who we want to be sort of perspective, you know, this is that, that midlife transition that, you know, it’s our time to shine ladies. 

Jo: Yes. Love it, Kylie. Well, thanks for letting me come on and just share the, that spirit with you and spend this time with you today.

I appreciate it. 

Kylie: All right. Thanks so much, Jo. Thanks everyone for listening. And we will see you next time on the hormone hub.